Was Holder A Mole? Kroll: “We Frankly Do Not Know”

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Proquest query on Dantas +Kroll: Two results.

As always, should you or any member of your IM force be caught or killed, the secretary will disavow all knowledge of your actions. This tape will self-destruct in five seconds. –Mission: Impossible

We are suing him, so it is clear that we have some questions about his work. We discovered things that led us to sue him. When the article in Veja was published, it was a shock. –Andrés Antonius, Kroll, interview, June 2, 2006, Folha de S. Paulo

The clippings service of the Brazilian Ministry of Planning reproduces a June 2, 2006 article from the Folha de S. Paulo‘s Leonardo Souza — an interview with Andrés Antonius of Kroll about Frank Holder.

A follow-up to

In the lawsuit Kroll filed against Holder, Holder counterclaims that Antonius slandered him in the press. I am going to read Kroll’s complaint in the case — Kroll, Inc. et al v. Holder (Southern District of New York, Case No. 1:06-cv-04657-RJH) — this morning.

Nothing better to do. I hate Christmas, so I tend to blog a lot in order to try to forget that it is upon us.

I admit it: For me, blogging is a psychologically unhealthy avoidance behavior. I am thinking of forming a twelve-step support group called BS: Blogging Surivors.

See

Companhia afirma que procurou autoridades do país para assegurar que não cometeu ilegalidades

Company states it sought out Brazilian officials to assure them it had not committed illegal acts.

O presidente mundial da divisão de consultoria da Kroll, Andrés Antonius, afirmou que a empresa não espionou autoridades autoridades [sic]. Antonius admitiu que a Kroll procurou o governo brasileiro, com a ajuda da ex-embaixadora americana Donna Hrinak, para assegurar que a empresa não havia cometido qualquer ato ilegal no país. Ele também reconheceu que Frank Holder trabalhava para a empresa quando elaborou o documento no qual relata ter obtido informações da CIA sobre autoridades brasileiras. Antonius diz, no entanto, que não pode saber de Holder diz a verdade. Segundo Antonius, Holder não estava acompanhado de funcionário da Kroll nas reuniões que diz ter tido com americanos, incluindo a CIA. A embaixada americana nega que Holder tenha estado com o ex-embaixador John Danilovich, mas confirmou encontro com o ministro-conselheiro John Harris. Leia abaixo trechos da entrevista à Folha.

The worldwide president of Kroll’s consulting division, Andrés Antonius, stated that the firm did not spy on officials. Antonius admitted that Kroll sought out the Brazilian government, with the help of former American ambassador Donna Hrinak, to assure it that the company had not committed illegal acts in the country. He also acknowledged that Frank Holder worked for the company when he prepared the dcoument in which he says he obtained information from the CIA about Brazilian authorities. Antonius said, however, that he is not in a position to know whether Holder was telling the truth. According to Antonius, Holder was not [representing] Kroll in the meetings he said he had with the Americans, including the CIA. The American embassy denies that Holder had met with former ambassador John Danilovich, but did not confirm the meeting with John Harris. Read excerpts from his interview with the Folha below.

FOLHA – Frank Holder é um ex-agente da CIA?

Is Frank Holder a former CIA agent?

ANDRÉS ANTONIUS – Ele nunca falou nada sobre isso à Kroll.

He never said anything to Kroll about that.

FOLHA – Há muitas menções na Internet relacionando Holder à CIA.

There are many citations on the Internet relating Holder to the CIA.

There are many citations on the Internet relating Bubba Clinton to the “murder” of Vince Foster. There are many citations on the Internet relating ETA to the 11-M bombings in Madrid. There are many citations on the Internet relating the Kennedy assassination to UFOs.

The Folha de S. Paulo apparently thinks the Internets are the repository of ultimate truth.

ANTONIUS – Eu li uma declaração do encarregado da embaixada dos EUA negando que ele tenha sido agente da CIA.

I read a statement by the chargé d’affaires of the American embassy denying he had been a CIA agent.

FOLHA – Sabe-se que os EUA impedem que autoridades do país falem sobre assuntos da CIA.

It is known that the U.S. bars its officials from commenting on CIA-related matters.

ANTONIUS – Sim, mas ele nunca me falou nada sobre a CIA.

Yes, but he never said anything to me about the CIA.

FOLHA – Por que a Kroll contratou Holder como consultor quatro dias após sua saída como diretor da empresa?

Why did Kroll hire Holder as a consultant four days after he left the company?

It is interesting (disconcerting, but not surprising) to note that this Folha reporter seemed to have the story straight, while its more recent reporting generally reflects an inaccurate, or vague, version of this series of events.

Apparently Folha reporters do not regularly consult the institutional memory banks of their newspaper before going ahead and reinventing the wheel.

ANTONIUS – Essa é uma questão que não posso responder por conta da ação que temos contra ele. O que posso dizer é que havia um projeto para esse cliente [Brasil Telecom] e houve um período de transição.

That is a question I cannot answer because of a lawsuit we filed against him. What I can say is that there was a project for this client [Brasil Telecom] and there was a transition period.

FOLHA – Holder trabalhava para a Kroll quando fez o relatório mencionando a CIA. Por que a Kroll põe agora o trabalho de Holder em dúvida?

Holder worked for Kroll when he wrote a report mentioning the CIA. Why is Kroll now casting doubt on Holder?

What report are we talking about here?

The one published in Veja?

On which see also

ANTONIUS – Eu não estou colocando nada em dúvida. Holder diz no documento que essas pessoas [autoridades americanas] contaram coisas. O que estou dizendo é que a Kroll não tinha conhecimento dessas conversas, ninguém da Kroll esteve com Holder nesses encontros.

I am not casting any doubt. Holder said in the document that these persons [American officials] told him things. What I am saying is that Kroll was not aware of those conversations, no one from Kroll was with Holder at those meetings.

This is confusing, because according to Holder, he managed the account for Kroll, in the name of Kroll.

UPDATE on this point:

FOLHA – Se a Kroll não estava certa dos procedimento de Holder, porque usou seu trabalho para traçar planos para um cliente?

If Kroll was not certain about Holder’s methods, why use his work as a basis for drawing up plans for a client?

ANTONIUS – Estamos processando-o, então é claro que temos algumas questões sobre seu trabalho. Descobrimos coisas que nos levaram a processá-lo. Quando o artigo da revista “Veja” foi publicado, foi um choque [Holder teria feito uma lista com autoridades brasileiras com contas no exterior].

We are suing him, so it is clear that we have some questions about his work. We discovered things that led us to sue him. When the article in Veja was published, it was a shock. [Holder allegedly authored a list of Brazilian authorities with offshore bank accounts.]

FOLHA – Foi a primeira vez que Holder falou de informações conseguidas pela CIA?

Was this the first time that Holder spoke of information obtained from the CIA?

ANTONIUS – Sim.

Yes.

FOLHA – Ao duvidar de um trabalho de Holder para a Kroll, a Kroll não coloca o nome da companhia em jogo?

In calling Holder’s work for Kroll into question, is Kroll not putting its own reputation in jeopardy?

ANTONIUS – Acho que a Kroll tinha que fazer a coisa certa quando tomou conhecimento do potencial de quebra de cláusulas contratuais. Não agir seria muito pior.

I think Kroll had to do the right thing when it learned of the potential breach of contract. Not to act would have been much worse.

FOLHA – Com quais autoridades o sr. e Jules Kroll falaram no Brasil?

With what officials did you and Jules Kroll speak here in Brazil?

ANTONIUS – Tivemos muitos encontros, todos transparentes. Queríamos dizer diretamente ao governo que a Kroll é uma empresa respeitada, que a Kroll não se envolveu em atividades ilegais, que não investigou autoridades brasileiras e que estávamos à disposição para fornecer qualquer informação que eles precisassem.

We had many meetings, all of them transparent. We wanted to tell the government directly that Kroll is a respected firm, that Kroll is not involved in illegal activities, that it did not investigate Brazilian official and that we were at its service to provide any information they needed.

FOLHA – O sr. poderia citar as autoridades com quem se encontraram?

Could you mention the officials you met with?

ANTONIUS – O ministro Thomaz Bastos, José Dirceu e o senador Tuma. Houve também conversas em Davos (Suíça) com o ministro Antonio Palocci.

Minister Bastos (Justice) and Senator Tuma. There were also conversations in Davos with Minister Palocci (Treasury).

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